Comments on: Why I Love Westloop UBF!

By: c

Fri, 01 May 2015 17:04:33 +0000

David, I look forward to it!

By: David W

David W — Thu, 30 Apr 2015 18:26:00 +0000

Charles, this is a very sticky topic indeed. I’m not even going to pretend as if I’ve got it figured out, but I currently have a detailed skeleton for the talk that should shape up to be something worth listening to. Hyde Park will record the talk, so after it’s done, I’ll post both my written material and a link to the audio on this site.

By: c

Thu, 30 Apr 2015 18:12:26 +0000

“listening to God through the Word/word (Christ/Scripture)”

Great topic! Please share that here as well. I don’t expect to be in the Chicago area in June. :)

I would love to discuss that and hear from everyone. That the Word came to mean both the person, Christ, and the Scripture is beyond me and has made for a terrible mess of things in churches.

By: David W

David W — Thu, 30 Apr 2015 18:04:10 +0000

Haha, hey Brian, kind of meant it as a pun, as in West Loop and Hyde Park are two great chapters from my perspective that I’ve encountered along my personal journey. But who knows, perhaps the two talks would be good material for a book. we’ll see…

By: BrianK

BrianK — Thu, 30 Apr 2015 17:47:40 +0000

Glad to hear this! Are you writing a book?

By: David W

David W — Thu, 30 Apr 2015 17:36:47 +0000

I also want to express my love and gratitude toward West Loop members. In 2002-03, my wife initially started studying the Bible with Ben Toh’s daughter and subsequently committed herself to his fellowship. She expresses to this day how much she felt loved and accepted by the members there, who later went on to form the core group of the West Loop congregation.

I spoke about how Rhoel Lomahan reached out to me. It turned out to be very good timing. For some time, I was thinking about taking some seminary courses and eventually going on to obtain some kind of degree or training, that is after I finished my current PhD. But after I had a falling out with my chapter, I became somewhat disillusioned with theology, namely due to the seeming impracticality of it, which I spoke about in my sermon. If Rhoel hand’t invited me to give a sermon, I would have never struggled with this disillusionment as hard as I did to prepare the sermon on Incarnational Spirituality. This has turned out to be a significant turning point in my life as I feel as though I’m beginning to gain my bearings again, theologically and spiritually speaking.

I’m also going to give a talk on listening to God through the Word/word (Christ/Scripture) at Hyde Park in June if anyone wishes to come out. Two great chapters in my book ;)

By: c

Thu, 30 Apr 2015 16:39:14 +0000

The West Loop logo always brought to mind the Star Wars title (same font?). But, really, I’d love to visit the places where all the ubfriends are! It would be great to see everybody and their families in person and where they’re at.

By: BrianK

BrianK — Thu, 30 Apr 2015 15:30:20 +0000

Good point Chris :)

By: Chris

Chris — Thu, 30 Apr 2015 14:39:53 +0000

I was flattered enough today when Brian equated me with the Darth Vader (maybe my German accent makes me the perfect fit?), so no more honorary titles please ;-) Let’s not try to compete with UBF in that regard.

By: BrianK

BrianK — Thu, 30 Apr 2015 14:37:07 +0000

Yea I’m aware of that reality :) I still love Westloop UBF!

By: Ben Toh

Ben Toh — Thu, 30 Apr 2015 14:27:09 +0000

Hi Brian, After reading my comment, one person sent me a private email:

“Please publicly say that Brian is not an honorary elder of WestLoop and that you said among him as a gesture of friendship. But he is Not an honaray elder of WestLoop. Make it clear. And apologize to Brian that is how you feel but it is not what WestLoop see him as.”

As a member of a pretty diverse community at WL, there are strong diverse opinions on both sides of the fence. Please feel free to change your opinion of WL as a result of this comment. I’m fine with it. As far as I’m concerned it changes nothing between us. We’re still friends and brothers.

By: BrianK

BrianK — Thu, 30 Apr 2015 13:40:52 +0000

@Joe, that is great to hear. The two things I have prayed for the most since 2011 are the following: 1) The deconstructing of ubf KOPAHN shepherding ideology and 2) The redemption of every ubf chapter.

Note that I do not pray for nor participate in the reforming of ubf chapters. Redemption is the way forward at this point (after 50+ years of history). And redemption starts with repentance and confession of sin, as Chris points out so well.

@Ben, Anytime anyone reaches out to me for help, I try to make a point to mention that they should learn from Westloop UBF. The church meeting there should be looked at as an example (not the explicit pattern but example) of how to redeem UBF. Today I plan to complete my 3 part article series with my more complete thoughts on the topic “Why I say UBF is a Cult”. After that I don’t have any articles planned.

By: Ben Toh

Ben Toh — Thu, 30 Apr 2015 13:14:53 +0000

Thanks, Brian, I’m genuinely floored and flabbergasted by what you wrote. But I’d have to fully affirm everything you wrote, including welcoming you and your family as honorary elders. I would also honor Chris, Charles and countless others as honorary elders because of your whole-hearted devotion and dedication to ubf, which is the only church I’ve ever been a part of since I became a Christian in 1980.

I welcome and honor you because I was complicit by my silence and ignorance (which is no excuse) of the abuse you went through, which to this day has sadly not been apologized for, and for which I am ashamed. But even if others will not apologize, I sincerely do apologize as a 35 year committed Christian to ubf and to Christ, who is the ultimate head of ubf.

Thanks again, Brian. I really had goose bumps reading what you wrote. I truly love you as my brother and friend because we can disagree with each other without being disagreeable or offensive or by calling each other names!

By: Joe Schafer

Joe Schafer — Thu, 30 Apr 2015 11:06:59 +0000

And Penn State UBF still exists. We are planning to use our resources in some exciting ways to serve the local community and the greater Body of Christ. Someday I may write about this, to share what we are doing. I hope that UBF headquarters will bless this work and partner with us to make it possible.

By: Joe Schafer

Joe Schafer — Thu, 30 Apr 2015 10:56:56 +0000

Yes, I love WestLoop as well. I always feel loved and accepted and edified by them. May they live long and prosper.

And I love Hyde Park. I love the way that Hyde Park is being renewed by other parts of the Body of Christ. May they live long and prosper.

And I love Waterloo. Some close friends of mine are moving to Waterloo soon and I hope that they check out Waterloo UBF because I love Andy Stumpf and I think that Waterloo UBF would be an excellent fit for them. May they live long and prosper.

And I suspect that I would love Wright College too. May they live long and prosper.