We are certainly talking about two different JP’s. JP in my article above is Jim from Toledo, the father of TP (a long-time ubfer who left in angst around 2006). JP in Toledo would certainly not be moving to St. Louis.

I do not disagree. So UBF gets quite hung up and bent out of shape on “obedience” (sadly to a man rather than to God, and often equating the two) and “doing mission” (primarily on campus and/or only in UBF, rather than anywhere else).

But I think that this may be gradually changing (even if it is at a snail’s pace) as more and more UBFers begin to bring this up in their own respective UBF chapters.

What I am suggesting is not a message – that might become tiresome for whoever sits down to compose it. I am suggesting comparing the essense of what we know from UBF messages and what we freshly infer and take away when we sit down newly without having to adjust to the “mandate”. We have argued and discussed many times about how UBF style messages over emphasize mission (as understood by UBF) rather than focusing on the gospel. Often times I sense that simple messages are made much more complicated than necessary as a result of taking the books or chapters and stradling them with UBF missions.

I doubt whether they really instruct and inform. I found they are often misleading and confusing instead. Also, the messages are often written in a way that they can be read on several levels “between the lines”. A UBF insider will understand certain allusions differently from a newcomer. I remember a particular message where our chapter director preached between the lines that we needed to follow and subordinate to Samuel Lee no matter how unreasonable and wrong his directions appeared to us. This teaching was very clear in that situation for those who had ears to hear, even if it was only preached between the lines. The general director Samuel Lee himself preached (several times) directly, not only between the lines in the announcements, but explicitly in his Sunday messages which were printed out and downloadable for members, that those who do not obey him or leave UBF will experience a horrible accident or death. Therefore, in my view he was a false teacher of the gospel. He taught fear of God and fear of himself, not trust in a loving father God. Even in not so blatant cases of unbiblical teaching, in my experience, nearly all UBF messages teach the UBF paradigms of “spiritual order” and/or “salvation by doing the works” of UBF. Granted, sometimes it’s more obvious and direct and the primary content of the message, sometimes it’s more hidden and between the lines or only a side message, but it’s always there, every week. In my view, both teachings are completely opposite to the gospel. Even if UBF messages often contain correct statements about the gospel, they are always somehow twisted, relativized, downplayed, accompanied with “but” statements, or annulled by other non-biblical teachings which claim the opposite. The audience is confused about the gospel at best.

My Fall review will end in September, so there are only two more to go. I suppose some will be saying wake me up when September ends.

Nonetheless, I feel it is important to reason through these public messages, examining them with one question: How does this message present the gospel of Jesus? I’m not concerned with anything else in these messages quite frankly.

I attempted to open up a private discussion but he replied “take me off your list”.

So I’m open to other suggestions for communication, but as soon as I resigned from ubf, certain people instantly stopped talking to me and to this day won’t talk to me. So I have been using my blogs to communicate what I want to say. I know they are reading my articles and hopefully one day we could meet in person again.

Your ramblings are basically correct Ben. However I feel that specific reactions to specific messages will lead to specific responses and actions (of some type). In my Fall review of the Toledo UBF messages, I seek to answer a question that I’m processing right now “Why did I fail to preach the gospel through my messages?”

I rate all but 2 of my messages over a 20 year period as “1 star”. 1 message was a 2 star, and one was a 3 star. These “stars” are not exactly a quality rating, but merely a gauge of how well the message presents the gospel of Jesus.

As a broad sweeping generalization (which surely does not apply to all), I have said this about our UBF messages over the past decade plus: “They instruct and inform, but do not inspire.”

Without reading the Toledo message, my general thoughts are that UBF messages are not blatantly heretical; they do not deny Christ or the gospel; they do not break with traditional orthodoxy; they do not deny the Apostle’s Creed; etc. Thus, UBF messages are basically and fundamentally Christian. So, UBF messages do not really say anything that is grossly wrong or unbiblical.

A recent thought is that UBF messages tend to be coma inducing, because they tend to be predictable (especially with their imperatives/commands), which then makes it boring. It tends to be forced, in that the message(er) is trying to force some point, rather than let the text speak for itself. It lacks spirit and spiritual power. Are even some 2013 ISBC messages like this?

The point being forced in the message/sermon is invariably an imperative, such us, “You must …. (love, serve, be thankful, live a life of mission, deny yourself, take up your cross, make disciples, preach the gospel, etc, etc).” None of this is obviously wrong. It might even be preached in a “nice way.” Nonetheless, it is just hard to listen to because it is a message of Law, not of Gospel or good news. Therefore, an imperative driven message is basically bad news. It burdens people. It wears them out. It does not provide rest for a weary soul, but piles on your Christian responsibilities without any assistance.

Sorry for rambling… Thoughts? Comments?

Again I would suggest for those in ubf to accept your challenge and stop “doing ubf” for at least one week. It will be the most exciting and joyful week, with Christ and with good messages from Jesus Himself!

After the message I wouldn’t think about a respectful way to leave ubf. I would follow the Nike motto, “Just do it!”.

The Toledo UBF message failed miserably yesterday and is a classic example of everything not to do in a message. This is my harshest review yet.

My strong encouragement is for everyone in ubf, both young and old, to challenge this “control” (gracefully, respectfully and prayerfully) whenever it is perceived.

“Controlling others” is the sinful default of every human being with no exceptions. We need constant ongoing repentance to NOT control others (like the father of the prodigal son), especially if one has positional authority in the church.

I’m really enjoying the discussions and thrilled that it’s not “just me”.

I think it is a good time to remind everyone that we have a comments rss feed that may make it easier for you to read prior comments, especially if you have an rss reader (rss is a fancy term for “really simple syndication”).

So here is our syndicated feed:

Click here to see the prior 100 comments in a sequential format

yet i experienced legalistic guilt growing up Catholic before ubf pretended to be better but ended up worse…& the Catholic hierarchy has it’s own history of loyalty/blind obedience travesties; the pope is infallible: yeah right:)

point: can’t blame ubf problem on korean-ism; rather i blame greatness seeking of any race/culture (God doesn’t play when people pretend to be God/think they are God, He will crush their little tower of Babel:)

It is not a question for those who left: to stay or not to stay? Everyone chooses to stay… in the freedom and grace with the Lord after he left ubf.

To those who say that christianity as a whole is much the same toward the grace of Jesus I would say that ubf is a champion in crossing the personal boundaries to control people’s lives. Other churches may be more legailistic than graceful but still they are such through teaching of the law not through control and manipulation, not through loyalty and absolute obedience (to the guru/servants of god) Confucianism.

It seems to me through the comments that ubf – Korean directors + being open to other churches = possible change and godly future of those who so dearly love each other as brothers and sisters. ubf directors (who are Korean and Confucian) is the main issue which creates the abusive ubf system (cultish and Confucian).

I remember several years earlier when 4of our 8 fellowship members ( tp, mp, bs, jj) left. I remember while in brothers house seeing more friends leave (jh, kh, at, ak, jt). None of them left because of the things they did wrong, but because of the wrong the ministry did to them. Before TP and MP left, most of my “training” was with TP. After tp and mp left i think ph tried to show some grace to me and my family because of what happened to the MTC fellowship. Seeing sooo many of my closest friends get hurt was enough for me and my family.

Fran and I talk openly together about our experiences with our bible teachers from over the years and some of the pains caused. We also have discussed some of the pain we have caused to others like students or even family due to our time in UBF. In hind sight I saw so many warning signs, even in my first year of study, but ignored them because God was doing and did do some great things in my heart. Warning signs like the high pressure to attend a conference, to choose ministry events over family and friends, staying up all night re-writting a testimony because it was not to ubf standard, people crying over decisions a bible student made as if the bible teacher was personally responsible. the previous and early reformers who tried to share their stories of abuse in ubf and falling for the (they have lost their mission and are bitter routine).

I wish I had been able to speak out sooner, often, more boldly and gracefully. I am sorry to all my friends who left before us and we stood by not saying or doing much to help Them.

In personal application this can effect us in many ways and aspects of our lives. It can cover many facets including our social life, academic life, professional life , family life and so on. The point is that we are restored and recovered in God and are able to receive many blessings that await us.

In UBF I have grown tired of the limited and shallow point of view of God’s grace. Jesus died for your sins etc….so now you must repay in way of these works: fishing, teaching 1:1, db, attending meetings, testimony writing, testimony writing, testimony writing….did I forget to mention testimony writing. I repeat because of db test, weekly test, conf test, thanksgiving test and so on.

You must express yourself only in way of carrying out the works model that has been mentioned several times by Joe, Ben and Brian. In addition to this, any blessing in way of grace that comes upon you is only to be rejoiced about if it involves your graduation or employment opportunity that keeps you close to the church. No social relations unless they are Bible students. No BF/GF – you must wait until God blesses you – scratch that I mean church elders. Heaven help you if your job demands time during meetings or it is just too far away. I would rather not repeat what we already know….

Anyway, blessings and grace in the way of ministry seem to always be caveated by the alterior motives of the elder involved with you.

Keep it simple: focus on Jesus and Jesus alone.

Yes!!!! This has been one of my pet peeves and mantras over the last few years that Christians (in UBF and elsewhere) are deathly afraid of extending grace liberally, and preferring instead to express punishment and retribution on countless occasions (even for perceived misbehavior or disobedience or disrespect). In my opinion, this is tragic, and will lead to the death of any church or ministry.

I think this can first be look at on a personal level. I think I experienced a fear for a long time that accepting Jesus’ death on the cross was not enough, it was only a beginning. While this is a beginning, it is also sufficient. It changes us. Doing more work will not change me further. I think it is hard to believe that simply accepting Jesus’ sacrifice is enough.

I think at an organizational level, many also fear a loss of control when grace is extended to others. Not only does this model contradict human ideas of leadership, it is hard to believe that people will not simply go nuts and live completely terrible lives when grace is extended to them. We lack faith in the transforming power of grace in others.

I wonder is accepting grace is a fearful proposition to many. I’m still trying to work through this idea and wonder what others think and if others saw this same theme emerge through these comments.

sad when religion becomes excuse to act worse than world; we all battle demons (within/without) but must overcome with God’s help;

let’ get to the point: missionaries who use natives to do ‘dirty’ work/get benefits/shield from trouble have become gangish/behind-back connivers/back room deal-makers of the worst kind;
it doesn’t matter who abused them to become that way or how hard to change:
they must be dishonored until they come to their senses (wake up & smell the coffee), repent/be set free/healed/helped by God to overcome demons

Here are many other behavioral strategies used throughout the community which, in my opinion, should have no place in a gospel ministry. Shouting. Public shaming and private shaming. Shunning. Spreading gossip in order to marginalize certain people and turn others against them. Shedding crocodile tears to instill guilty feelings (“After all God’s servants have sacrificed for you, now you treat them like this?”). Fostering a spirit of personal indebtedness to you. Withholding your love and approval until desired behaviors are displayed. These have been the standard tricks of the trade in many cultures. Many seem to think they are valid ministry management and discipleship strategies, especially if you use them to press people toward behaviors that are seen as good (e.g., fishing, testimony writing, etc.) But, in my opinion, anyone who thinks these are valid strategies for Christian discipleship has a deficient understanding of the gospel.

nothing will ever get better unless we all buck up and face the truth: there is only one common humanity which must reach out to the Creator God for help/healing

everything else is a bunch of feel sorry, respect man more than God
(in so doing we actually disrespect by keeping self/friend enslaved-addicted)

age/race just mean it may be harder to repent: more reason to get on with it, or end up like Nebuchadnezzar eating cattle grass (or like captive Israelites sitting by river in Babylon remembering life in ‘Promised Land’);

This from Wikipedia is instructive:
“Groupthink is a psychological phenomenon that occurs within a group of people, in which the desire for harmony or conformity in the group results in an incorrect or deviant decision-making outcome. Group members try to minimize conflict and reach a consensus decision without critical evaluation of alternative ideas or viewpoints, and by isolating themselves from outside influences.
Loyalty to the group requires individuals to avoid raising controversial issues or alternative solutions, and there is loss of individual creativity, uniqueness and independent thinking. The dysfunctional group dynamics of the “ingroup” produces an “illusion of invulnerability” (an inflated certainty that the right decision has been made). Thus the “ingroup” significantly overrates their own abilities in decision-making, and significantly underrates the abilities of their opponents (the “outgroup”).”

We are talking about an older generation – let’s say – Asian, not just Korean. (It could be like old old generation European or whatever.) Anyway, punishments for wrong doings among older generations did take way of physical or psychological means. Is it possible that in their understanding they never actually did anything wrong even though they “abused”? What if striking someone (similar to corporal punishment) is a viable approach? What if scolding and speaking harshly on a personal level is all part of disciplinary understanding?

We are beyond 2000 (well, 2013) and I see many aspects of the past approach in my daily life. At work I have already said that corporal punishment is illegal unless the parents have given their consent.

I am hardly defending the abuse – I think it is disgusting! But I want to draw out aspects that are obvious to me through my daily life. It seems to be a very normal behaviour in the sphere of educating. We have said many times about 1>1 instead of 1:1. If the seniors truly see themselves as mentors than I could turn that around and say that they are tormentors.

The other dilemma I see with all of these abuses comes from the timing of implementing them. Some leaders (my own shepherd) decided within a short while it was appropriate to take such action to train or discipline me long before I displayed any loyalty or real commitment to UBF. The consequence was a long term battle of wills – I had no real issue committing to UBF one way or the other in my time and God’s time. But to be bullied into commitment through means of emotional abuse and harsh language and physical dramatics by slamming your fist on the desk – this does not sound like a healthy relationship at all. In fact it was such a fresh relationship I often wonder why I did in fact remain – oh yeah, it was because I had actually experienced the grace of Jesus through reading and studying the Bible. But in terms of shepherd-sheep relations I had experienced confusion.

WE MUST STOP EXCUSING HONOR ADDICTION, THAT IS THE MAIN PROBLEM TO REPENT OF/BE SAVED FROM!!! (OTHERWISE TENDERLY PERPETUATE/ENABLE)

if refuse heed God’s prophetic warnings, end up eating grass like cattle.(period)

Daniel revealed Nebuchadnezzar’s dream a year before it happened & advised the king to renounce sin/wickedness by doing right & being kind to avoid going to grass like cattle:

but a year later (paraphrase) Neb said ‘is this not my great kingdom by my power?’ God answered ‘No, your authority is taken from you/you are driven out’

Though I agree with this, yet understanding and living in the paradigm of a rigid and inflexible honor culture that is UBF, it seems virtually impossible for some of those leaders to ever be able to acknowledge that they were mistreated/abused, while sadly they themselves continue the mistreatment/abuse of others—all the while firmly believing that they have the absolute right to do and decide what they do because they are “the servant of God.”

What is most unbearable and unpalatable in UBF (in addition to the authoritarian spiritual abuses) is the subtle and blatant honor-seeking and self-glorifying of UBF and missionaries at every opportunity. At its core this is just sheer pride and ego present in all of us, expressed as cultural and ethnic imperialism that throws all other cultures under the bus while insisting upon the superiority of their own missionary culture.

I’m not sure if trying to call out SLee’s past abuses is really the way to go about it. It seems to me that there are more than enough recent abuses and ongoing unhealthy practices of current “untouchable” leaders to deal with.

Nebuchadnezzar behaved wickedly thinking Babylon was built by his own power for his own glory, so God drove him out to live like animal for 7yrs until he acknowledged God Most High(then sanity was restored);

Chang Woo (Samuel) Lee behaved wickedly (unethical/illegal) thinking UBF was built by his own power for his own glory, so God divided with reform movements periodically (if leaders/followers acknowledge God Most High, their sanity is restored..)

I know this sounds very very harsh and deafening to those who love UBF. Yet, can we hear and take to heart what is too hard to hear so that we search our own hearts, rather than react in defensiveness and offensiveness?

Regarding SL, I knew him quite well for the last 22 years of his life, sometimes seeing him 6 times a week. I believe he knows the grace of Jesus. I also tasted the grace of Jesus from him and through him. But I also know of those who tasted the unbearably painful and horrible things mentioned by many on this and other websites. Sometimes a dear one of mine still cries with pain and tears when she recollects some things that SL said and did.

But my primary thought is this: Repeatedly (over)emphasizing SL and his faults distracts from some current UBF leaders in high places who are still abusive, authoritarian, unaccountable, blind to what they are doing, and silent in their own isolation and insular oligarchy.

When many UBF people hear those continuing to call out the sins of a dead man, the few current UBF leaders who are perpetuating unhealthy and unbiblical practices can simply fly low under the radar, escape/avoid detection, while they simply emphasize how much some “UBF bashers” do not respect a dead man and keep bashing him.

Don’t you think it is far better to focus on the few current “unaccountable overweening honor-seeking” UBF leaders, than repeatedly mentioning the sins of UBF’s dead founder (which simply inflames some UBFers, and confuses others, while “allowing” some current leaders to smile and snigger)?

Saul had sought human kingdom of titles/benefits/pleasures; Jesus sought spiritual kingdom of love/light/life

any religious ‘master race’ must repent, or go the way of Hitler..

do something Holy Spirit way (sincere/right): good
do nothing: ok
do something man’s way (sick/twisted): bad

as you can see doing nothing (until seek/find Holy Spirit help) is spiritually better than doing something bad for it’s benefits or just to be doing something..

Unfortunately, I think UBF thinks their solution to such organizational problems actually works and has worked in the past. Maybe I’m giving an empty suit too much credit, but Ward’s proposed solution sounds to me in summary like, “Maybe this ministry isn’t really for you then” or “If you don’t like it, maybe you should just leave” or to borrow someone else’s phrase, “It’s time for ‘a good spring cleaning’ around here. Bye.” Then when people do leave, start over with new people. Problem solved, as far as they are concerned.

I think the main principles of a good exit strategy is to help one more person to see what you see and be vocal about reasons of leaving. This the way to honor God and to reveal truth (what do you have to say) and love (help one more person). The question of organisation future is a way less important. It is less important then a struggle of a person who is thinking to leave and not leaving even the organization will not change in 10 or 20 years.

That being said, it is also clear from the comments that Toledo is not unique. This is a great case study that shows the impact of the systemic problems that plague UBF as a whole.

These problems can continue to cause great harm to families, to children, to relationships in general, and, most dangerously can work to separate people from understanding the love, grace, and freedom in Christ.

Like Martha, in the past few years I wondered about how wonderful Toledo UBF could have been had everyone stayed. We loved each other, but were driven away by these bizarre attitudes that held traditions, obedience, discipline, as more important than people. How strange to me know, after being removed, that UBF could take such an ungodly stance. This made me angry and bitter at first. I felt as if I had wasted my time while honestly seeking God.

But then, I got it. UBF simply doesn’t matter. I had been giving a man made organization way more credit, thought, emotion, etc. than it deserves. Perhaps this is because I was taught that UBF loved and accepted me, but that Jesus disapproves of me unless I did certain things or engaged in certain practices. Finally, I realized that that UBF doesn’t matter, but Jesus does. And Jesus does not disapprove of me. Jesus is not angry because I think daily bread is poorly written propaganda and I will not get up early to read it. Jesus is not angry because I quit writing stupid testimonies about what other acts of devotion I can perform. Jesus is not even angry when I sin (yes, even though I learned discipline in UBF, I still sin-shocking!!!) Jesus has known forever what kind of sinner I am and died for me BECAUSE HE knew I could do nothing about it. This realization was so freeing that I feel changed after leaving.

UBF is going to do whatever it wants. I hope these posts, however, show others that UBF and Christianity are not synonymous. There is a freedom, grace, and love in Christ outside of UBF like I have never experienced. I really appreciate those, both in and out of UBF, that are willing to simply listen, love and search for Jesus with me!

Perhaps the reasons I expressed are an oversimplification, as well as being a generalization.

Please do tweek and expand upon them from different angles and complexities, if you care to.

you keep forgetting to mention BM and BM who left shortly after MP and TP. They are one of our closest friends and they served along time in Toledo. They wouldnt want to be recognized but they are part of Toledo history.

I guess some things have changed. if you are a hardcore UBFer please cover your eyes and ears, this might hurt. We do not have a traditional friday meeting with testimonies, like what you might envision. We have an Upper Room for students and led by students with wonderful loud worship music and excited students. Then we have an optional friday prayer/ sharing meeting for traditional people. And optional really does mean optional.

I agree with Joe. Its not very Christlike. But how about turning the tables upside down like Jesus did at the temple.

I highly recommend watching Office Space and a lot of other movies, especially children’s movies to aid in your recovery from ubf…

I really hope to do my part in mending broken relationships with my brothers and sisters like TF, EF, KB, etc.

If I understand your question, this has already been a dead horse beaten to death: Isn’t it sadly true that certain UBF leaders attitude toward anyone who “dares” to speak up is that you either humbly submit to me without question, or you get the hell out of here?

The Christlike approach might involve a whip.

Mark experienced this years ago in Montreal UBF his home chapter, before he came to Toledo. He is originally from Canada and that is why he felt such a connection with Joshua. The sad thing is, where are the leaders in all this? When do we say enough is enough? Lets repent and learn from our mistakes? Can you imagine how vibrant and wonderful and amazing this church would be? Can you imagine what a great place Toledo UBF could have been if the church had repented. But no, and here we are in the wilderness because we have not repented as a church.