Comments on: A Holy Nation is a Blessing to Others http://www.ubfriends.org/2010/08/01/a-new-community-living-as-gods-people/ for friends of University Bible Fellowship Wed, 21 Oct 2015 04:34:18 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=4.3.1 By: Brian Karcher http://www.ubfriends.org/2010/08/01/a-new-community-living-as-gods-people/#comment-217 Tue, 14 Jun 2011 20:23:06 +0000 http://ubfriends.org/?p=728#comment-217 John,

It was refreshing to read your article again almost a year later. Your warnings and questions are vital to consider:

“Who do you know and love that is really very different from you? Who do you associate with who stretches you beyond your comfort zone? Who do you share the vision of Christ’s kingdom with that is not exactly like you in the small things that we are all prone to turn into the big things because they are “our” unique contributions?”

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By: Ben Toh http://www.ubfriends.org/2010/08/01/a-new-community-living-as-gods-people/#comment-216 Wed, 04 Aug 2010 19:17:51 +0000 http://ubfriends.org/?p=728#comment-216 Hi Augustine,

Ecclesiology comes from the Greek work “ecclesia,” (or ekklesia) which means “assembly,” and it refers to the Christian church. So if our ecclesiology is stronger than our Christology, it means that we emphasize what we do in church more than what Christ has done for us. Thus, what people are moved by or remember in church is what the church and people in church do, or has done, or will do, rather than by what Christ has done for us, and continues to do for us.

Because we Christians are all still quite sinful after becoming Christians, we default horizontally (to the church) rather than vertically (to Christ). All of Paul’s 13 epistles are dealing with “sinful” Christians, which includes us. As John Calvin said or implied (I’m paraphrasing), “We Christians are all partial non-believers until Christ comes again.” So, unless we make a conscious concerted effort we will inadvertently exalt the church and assume Christ, or at the expense of Christ. I think all churches, to whatever degree, does this. I don’t know if we in UBF do this any more than other churches.

I hope this makes sense.

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By: Augustine J. Sohn http://www.ubfriends.org/2010/08/01/a-new-community-living-as-gods-people/#comment-215 Wed, 04 Aug 2010 03:24:49 +0000 http://ubfriends.org/?p=728#comment-215 Hello Ben,

I am not big on big words. In order to understand your writing, I need to understand your sentence about ecclesiology. Could you explain ecclesiology (I am not sure even spelling is right) in a simple term so that ordianary people can understand?

Augustine

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By: Christian Misurac http://www.ubfriends.org/2010/08/01/a-new-community-living-as-gods-people/#comment-214 Tue, 03 Aug 2010 03:18:24 +0000 http://ubfriends.org/?p=728#comment-214 Dr. Armstrong,
thank-you for your article. I am so thankful for your relationship to our ministry. I believe it is edifying and pleasing to God. It reminds me of how I have been thinking about (and struggling to practice) my own relationship to UBF lately: like a marriage (maybe because I am a newly wed:). As a wife I am to respect and submit to my husband. It is also my job to help him develop into the man God created him to be. Holding to the metaphor, as a wife (member of UBF) to the church I think I should respect UBF in public no matter how weird things get (as long as they are not blaspheming the name of Jesus or something). But in private, within the context of our committed relationship, after much prayer, I should be free to share my concerns with leaders openly. In fact it is my responsibility to do so. I want to have an edifying relationship with UBF like a wife to a husband so we can grow together into the church and believers God created us to be.

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By: Ben Westerhoff http://www.ubfriends.org/2010/08/01/a-new-community-living-as-gods-people/#comment-213 Mon, 02 Aug 2010 21:15:44 +0000 http://ubfriends.org/?p=728#comment-213 And by “everything” I mean the methodology and the non-central theological issues.

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By: Ben Westerhoff http://www.ubfriends.org/2010/08/01/a-new-community-living-as-gods-people/#comment-212 Mon, 02 Aug 2010 21:11:28 +0000 http://ubfriends.org/?p=728#comment-212 One thing I suppose we should be wary of is turning younger brothers who come into our ministry into older brothers (funny how the reverse is almost never true). We don’t simply want the Father’s things, i.e., blessings on our ministry, we want the Father himself. Everything else is debatable.

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By: Ben Toh http://www.ubfriends.org/2010/08/01/a-new-community-living-as-gods-people/#comment-211 Mon, 02 Aug 2010 17:29:34 +0000 http://ubfriends.org/?p=728#comment-211 Thanks, John, for your positive encouragements of what God has done through us in ubf over the past half century, yet with some warnings of our “blind spots” and our “warts and all” (that are very good), so that only by the grace of God, we may remain relevant and contextualized without compromising “Sola Scriptura.”

Could it be that perhaps our ubf ecclesiology has become more dominant than our Christology? Doesn’t every great church and Christian movement incline toward exalting her own ecclesiology, thus assuming the gospel? So, we perhpas inadvertently celebrate what God has done in our church, more than celebrating God Himself, through Christ and through the Holy Spirit. This, as you alluded to, could lead to us to “turn inward and promote its own insights,” thus becoming sectarian and “tribalized.” Sometimes, it seems like even a global church movement like ours could behave like a fish in a fishbowl that is unaware that there is a vast ocean out there.

It seems that every church that God has used mightily through out history has to prayerfully guard against this seemingly inevitable sequence of events: It starts out as a (1) Movement, which then becomes a (2) Method, then a (3) Monument, then a (4) Museum. This surely happened even with the “ideal” church in Acts.

As Joe mentioned, we tend to be “triumphalistic” in our reports, newsletter and blogs, which then tends to ignor or avoid discussing real problems and issues, especially the painful, tragic and embarassing ones. Surely, we need to get out of our “comfort zone,” so that we can newly experience a “death and resurrection.”

It’s surely also so easy to desire and default to feel security, stability and strength by assuming our own “rightness” in serving Christ. But Richard Lovelace wrote: “The culture is put on as though it were armor against self-doubt, but it becomes a mental strait-jacket.”

Thanks again, John, for our 1st official and very appropriate essay on UBFriends.org. Thanks Joe, Brian, Mary and others who have provided this platform for us to be friends with “warts and all.”

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By: Tunde Adebola http://www.ubfriends.org/2010/08/01/a-new-community-living-as-gods-people/#comment-210 Mon, 02 Aug 2010 05:32:16 +0000 http://ubfriends.org/?p=728#comment-210 Thank you very much John for reminding us of what it means to be a blessing. The task ahead is more than what one church ministry can acomplish alone. So, I’m thankful God called us along with other christian groups all around the world to be real blessings to a hurting world.
In UBF, we pride ourselves as a world mission church and our members serve in many different capacities across the globe. As an example, God used our ministry and has continued to do so to reach people in many disfferent part of the world by preaching the gospel, translating scripture into native languages, building a mission hospital in East Africa etc.
For the most part, we work together amongst ourselves well, but as you pointed out there is a need for us to humbly embrace those who don’t share our unique history.
No doubt, this inclusive approach may cause us to rethink our ways of doing things and re-evaluate our methods humbly, particularly when we meet other Christians who stretch us beyound our comfort zone. This requires humility from both sides – humility to accept that our sisters and brothers from the other ministry may have unique gifts and better methods than we do. Humility to learn from them, accept blessings from them and offer our own materials and gifts for mutual edification and to advance the Kingdom of God.
This is what Jesus desired when he prayed the night he was betrayed that God help his disciples live in unity and not only them, but those who will believe through thier preaching. If this is Jesus’ desire and prayer topic (that Christians irrespective of our denominations, theology and background learn to work together), we must obey and humbly seek God for creative ways to work in our ministries and on our campuses with other people who share our faith and convition about the King and His Kingdom.
I am not sure how this will happen (and I pray it does happen), but I’m persuaded that this is the will of God. Jesus has other sheep that are not of this sheep pen and he wants to bring them also, because they too listen to his voice and there shall be one flock and one shepherd…
And John, thank you for being friends with us in UBF, I hope we can find ways to work with your church ministry often. Thanks again!

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By: Joe Schafer http://www.ubfriends.org/2010/08/01/a-new-community-living-as-gods-people/#comment-209 Sun, 01 Aug 2010 14:27:32 +0000 http://ubfriends.org/?p=728#comment-209 John, I want to thank you again for your friendship to UBF and to me personally. Over the last several years, and especially the last year, I have been reflecting a lot on our UBF community and what we need to effectively complete the work that God has called us to do.

I think your observations about UBF are spot-on. We have a distinctive history, culture and mission which makes us different from North American churches. We feel those differences at a very deep level; they have become part of our collective psyche, and without realizing it we emphasize those differences every time we meet together. (One example of this: the prayers we offer at our meetings and worship services focus very heavily on what God is doing in UBF.) But in the bigger picture, we are not so different. Every church and ministry has a unique story to tell. We need to tell our story to other parts of the Body of Christ, and we need to listen to their stories in return.

We are approaching the 50th anniversary of UBF. God has done great things among us. We have enormous potential as reflected in the lives of members who display a very high level of personal dedication to the ministry and to the cause of Christ. God is still working among us and we are thankful for it.

But we also need a reality check, because in many respects our ministry is not doing as well as we should. The reports that we post about our own activities are overwhelmingly positive, because we have trained ourselves to speak about ourselves in very positive, glowing (almost triumphalistic) terms. We ought to consider the very real possibility that our ministry could fail. The landscape of Christian history is littered with the remains of churches and communities that have fallen apart or made themselves irrelevant for the very reasons that you mentioned. If we fail to catch the fresh winds of the Spirit in this new generation, and if we fail to connect ourselves to the larger Body of Christ in meaningful ways, then the prognosis is not good. But if we humble ourselves to be obedient to the Spirit, to both serve and learn from other parts of the Body, then I have no doubt that God will bless and use UBF in exciting ways for many years to come.

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By: Joshua Yoon http://www.ubfriends.org/2010/08/01/a-new-community-living-as-gods-people/#comment-208 Sun, 01 Aug 2010 05:35:18 +0000 http://ubfriends.org/?p=728#comment-208 Thanks, Dr. Armstrong, for your insightful and prayerful blessing on and advice for UBF ministry as UBFriends website launched. I enjoyed your book “Your church is too small.” As he pointed out, we are at a crossroad. It is time for us to less promote our own distinctive insights but to turn our eyes to God’s larger purpose and will for this world and the Church. We need faith to cherish our strength and humility to acknowledge and admit our limit, and courage to take steps for changes. I hope UBF ministry will be a blessing to many nations as a member of the Church and Body of Christ as Dr. Armstrong wishes.

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