One thought that occurred to me was something that Chris has pointed out about the Reformers. When they left UBF, but they carried a great deal of it with them; they apparently didn’t take time to reflect and examine what happened to them or rethink their approach or refresh their understanding of the gospel. A person can get out of UBF, but it UBF stays within the person.

This is why, in the article I posted today, I tried to express that I did and do bear responsibility for what went on, for the abusive practices and scapegoating. For better or worse, UBF and I are still joined somehow. Although for many reasons I must distance myself from the organization, it would be unhealthy for me to say that the problem was entirely theirs. I was a victim, but I was also a perpetrator. UBF did not change me into a monster. When they found me, what they found was a little baby monster, and they fed me big bowls of monster chow. UBF used me for selfish reasons, and I used UBF for selfish reasons.

It is also ironic to read that Samuel Lee rebuked Isaiah Yoo for comingling UBF funds with church funds, when Lee comingled ministry funds with his own personal accounts in ways that no one, even the people closest to him, could ever see. He would often give people monetary gifts, writing them checks from his personal bank account, and where those funds came from, no one really knows, and will never know, because no detailed records were kept.

I’ve read that post by James V. It captures an interesting time in west coast UBF. I came to UBF right as Isaiah Yoo was heading out. My first conference was his last where he announced he was splitting away from UBF.

http://exubf.blogspot.com/2007/04/james-v-former-csun-ubf.html

OWSER, OWSERDOOBADOOYAH

I only knew fwiw as “For what it’s worth.” I learned from you that there are three others!

For what it’s worth.
For whoever is wondering.
From what I’ve witnessed.
Forgot where I was.

Which one (or how many of the above) did you mean? :)

On a second thought, I regret posting the above comment. Perhaps I was overcome… God bless me!

I realized that most ubfriends are offering golden silence during this holy week, whereas I am trying to keep the pot boiling!

Perhaps it happened because I am not celebrating Good Friday and Easter, as I haven’t yet found any clear instruction in the scripture to do so.

Though we might still have some ways to go for a fully transparent democratic process, it was certainly less clandestine and less politically motivated than previously. Yes, those who voted (over 90 people of the International Advisory Members) actually did have a choice between two candidates, which had never happened before.

So white smokes have arisen over ubf’s pristine chapel; the illuminated College of Cardinals has finally chosen ATK as the Bishop of UBF for one more tern. The link says he was elected but who was the opponent, how many votes he secured and why the electors chose him for a second term are top secrets …. Shhhhh!!!

What a way to choose the spiritual leader (or cult leader?) of an organization! Shouldn’t his achievements of the last term be shared with the world?

Should democracy be exercised in choosing spiritual leaders? When Jesus finally declared himself as the King of the Jews in no ambiguous words, he had zero votes in his favor (Jn 18:37).

Well, the King decides in the kingdom of God, but for the kingdom of this world, we need networking and voting, of course.
Nothing less than a secret society.

Thanks for watching this forests, but there’s no need to worry. The wikiadmins get notified if there is more blanking. They will take care of it.

Forests, yes that long string is your ip address. It is the new “ipv6” format. The internet came close to running out of the old ip addresses in the old “ipv4” format. Most everyone now has either both or just ipv6.

What is a little more complicated is deciphering past edits. I was trying to see if anyone had removed anything important about ubf being cult- like (and accidentally did that exact thing). What I did was went to history at the top and you can see all the edits people did. If someone vandalizes them (that means deleting large parts of it for no reason) then you can undo the edit and give a reason. Here I undid a revision (that’s the -4584, it means I deleted something) then I undid my own revision (that’s the +4584). I think 2602:30A:2C61:D2D0:71C2:A81C:D28F:26EF is my ip address (BrianK can correct me) which can be tracked here. http://www.iplocation.net/

(cur | prev) 03:20, 26 March 2015‎ 2602:30a:2c61:d2d0:71c2:a81c:d28f:26ef (talk)‎ . . (10,597 bytes) (+4,584)‎ . . (Undid revision 653555332 by 2602:30A:2C61:D2D0:71C2:A81C:D28F:26EF (talk)) (undo)
(cur | prev) 03:15, 26 March 2015‎ 2602:30a:2c61:d2d0:71c2:a81c:d28f:26ef (talk)‎ . . (6,013 bytes) (-4,584)‎ . . (Undid revision 648621495 by 331dot (talk) This is important information to know.) (undo)

Removing parts of the Wikipedia article about your cult won’t help your cause. In fact, the removing of negative information is seen as vandalism on Wikipedia and will always be reverted.

Another information blanking attempt on the ubf Wikipedia article

If the Wiki blanking and internet scrubbing continues we must not only ask “Are ubf leaders cult leaders?” we must also ask “Are some ubf people stupid?”

1) They usually do not care too much about doctrine quality. They care about their #1 values: loyalty to authority and obedience to your shepherd. Do that, and you can just about believe any doctrine you want.

2) They employ a subtle, often-hidden, six stage training program.

3) There have been 4 “reform” movements where leaders like me pointed out the problems with their flawed theology and practice. Those movements, in 1976, 1989, 2001 and 2011, have given the ubf leaders more Christian-sounding words. For example, all ubf chapters have a “chapter director” who is supposed to give training to the members of the chapter. But now they call this person (almost always a Korean) as a “pastor”.

4) ubf tends to study only parts of the bible in order to condition members to believe their 12 point slogan called “spiritual heritage”, as their own website shows.

How do I know? I was a ubf-man from 1987 to 2011 when I resigned. I rose up in the ranks from sheep, to bible teacher, to shepherd, to fellowship leader, to marriage by faith, to pioneering missionary, to chapter director.

I did all those things on your list. I and the other leaders made sure we had detailed lists of all members and sheep, and kept track of their daily activities. We kept “prayer lists” and discussed each person’s problems regularly.

I wrote three books about my recovery from this cultic ministry.

Even though things change on the surface, the harmful ubf shepherding theology in 2011 was no differnt from ubf shepherding theology in 1987.

1.) Does UBF require “newly committed” follower/students to do outreach at college campuses? If so, is this voluntary or peer-pressured?

1a.) I have heard that outreach/recruitment activities are so time-consuming, ppl are taught that “UBF is your family now” to justify the time spent away from their own relatives.

2.) Is it true that UBF leaders “force” (thru peer pressure) ppl to have set roommates after college? I believe this is called, “Common Life”?

3.) Do UBF leaders “suggest” where newly college grads should live (in close proximity to a UBF church campus) and openly encourage/discourage the person’s acceptance of jobs?

4.) Do UBF leaders “suggest” marriage partners for members and “assign” them UBF members from foreign countries who need an American visa? I have read that quite often these ppl have no idea who they are marrying.

5.) If any of these items are still true, why do UBF ldrs feel they are not a cult, and simply “following the Bible”? After all, I don’t recall anywhere in the Bible where Jesus/the Disciples/Paul exercised so much control over ppl’s lives.

I have read many things. Most of which are highly critical of UBF. But I figured that I could be “set straight” here. And would appreciate honest answers.

Thank you,

David

P.S. I realize that some/most of these practices have probably happened at some pt in the history of UBF. How does UBF enforce “doctrine quality control” in these circumstances? Or, do they at all?

8 clues

1. Power is not shared.

2. Your needs and desires are denied.

3. If you don’t comply you will be ignored or worse.

4. Your discontent with the church is your fault.

5. Little encouragement but lots of put downs (called constructive criticism).

6. Doubts and questions are interpreted as betrayal.

7. Shame is used to keep you in line.

8. Your life feels micromanaged by the church.

Let me say that my own marriage by faith experience in 1981 was happy and memorable, probably/perhaps because I was still “in shock” when I was getting married by faith (in God) to a person I did not know: http://www.ubfriends.org/2013/01/23/if-not-for-ubf-i-would-not-be-married/ My happy recollection is that God’s hand was on me and that I knew and felt that it was God’s will and God’s plan for me to marry Christy, despite all of my own fears and doubts.

I’m just saying that this is the first weekend in October… so time for some ancestor worship and arranged marriages soon.

Ok I feel better now. Still this weekend is a disgusting weekend for all of us former ubf members. We all know what this week is. Anyone up for some arranged marriages this week?

The insight the Spirit gave in 2011 was to connect the pockets of protection, by opening horizontal dialogues among ubf members. ubf directors prefer only vertical or one-way discussion. They are deathly afraid of mutual discussion, and multiple discussion networks.

Call ubf what you want– the ubf ideology is a breeding ground for all kinds of abuse. The only time abuse does not happen in ubf is when people withdraw and protect themselves. People are unwilling to come out of those little pockets of protection out of fear and out of self-perservation.

The terms change (cult, NRM, TACO, abherrant, etc). but the facts remain. Until ubfers face the fact that their ideology is as good as dead (like Abraham did) then they will remain a wounding machine hidden behind fake smiles and gifts of kimchee.

Roger Olson just posted an interesting article about “Unsafe Sects.”

For various reasons, he and many others are now reluctant to describe aberrant churches as cults. Rather, he suggests using the term “TACO”, which is an acronym for “Totalistic, Aberrational Christian Organization.”

He gives a nine-point checklist to help determine whether a group is a TACO. The first seven points are very descriptive of UBF. I’m not saying that all these things go on in every ubf chapter all the time. But I have seen them happen enough times in enough places to say that, yes, they do describe ubf. And leaders have shown show little or no resolve to root them out.

So I guess that UBF is a TACO.

The full article is here:

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/rogereolson/2013/08/t-a-c-o-s-anyone/

The quote I just read says: “If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, but need batteries, you have the wrong abstraction.” (underneath a picture of a real duck and a toy duck with batteries.)

The parallels to my experience of the ubf heritage are obvious: It looks like Christianity, sounds like Christianity, but needs batteries (i.e. much pushing) in order to make it work. This is called the “Liskov Substitution Principle“. This principle is necessary for inductive thinking to work properly.

Interestingly, this does not just apply to churches but to any group or organization, where “someone” (autocracy) or an “exclusive group” (oligarchy) wants to have CONTROL over their group or organization.

Sadly, but not surprisingly, Christians in many churches may also display such “potentially unsafe (unhealthy)” characteristics. It almost seems like every single one of the “10 warning signs” can be individually written up as a stand alone article. I have already written about the first warning sign countless times: “Absolute authoritarianism without meaningful accountability.”

No. The chance to corporately repent was missed big time. What can happen through ubf now is that new movements could spawn. We are already seeing this happen, albeit rather slowly.

Consider this:

In 2002, Kip stepped down from ICOC. That kicked off 10 years of restructuring, corporate repentance and rethinking their shepherd/sheep relationships– and lead to some growth and some positive signs of becoming a healthy ministry.

In 2002, SLee died in a fire. That kicked off 10 years of enforcing the top-down single person leadership structure, preserving the ubf heritage and a renewed commitment to CME so that ubf authority is cemented through shepherd/sheep relationships– and lead to a fourth “crisis”/reform movement and a plethora of negative signs of becoming a cult.

[Note: If you don’t know what CME is, why are you in ubf? CME is a method used by hardliner ubf Koreans to galvanize conformance to ubf ideology and to enforce the preservation of the ubf heritage. I call it “Cult Management Education”. It is a graceful means of B.I.T.E control and indoctrination.]

“The ICOC’s reported membership hit a high of 135,000 in 2002 — the same year worldwide leader Kip McKean stepped aside.”

In ubf the ICOC came up from time to time among the leaders. We discussed how bad they were and how much better ubf was than ICOC. I was led to believe ICOC was a small, fringe movemnt that was disintegrating in the 90’s. But actually ICOC was growing and far more successful than ubf at recruiting college students. ubf has never (to my knowledge) exceeded 10,000 and is currently at around 8,000 worldwide. ICOC was well over 10 times bigger in 2002.

I see ICOC supporters making the same kind of self-flattering statements as many ubf people:

“I am very thankful for my American brothers and sisters, in U.S.A., for sacrificing their lives for Jesus Christ and preaching God’s word to, almost, every major city, country and continent, around the world! I am thankful for my International brothers and sisters for raising up to lead God’s humble churches around the world and for, courageously, preaching God’s word boldly, in the face of persecution and hardships. You are my heroes in the faith! Praise God. May every disciple of Jesus Christ train and raise up a younger “Timothy” in God’s church- children, teens, campus, singles and marrieds, to be the future leaders and followers of Jesus Christ, in 2013. Will all the mighty men and women of God, please, stand up for Jesus Christ? Amen.”

And then there are voices of reality:

“Speaking of leadership, God hasn’t raised up new voices to lead his people in the last ten years? Of course God has raised up leaders, even though the icoc has gone from a one man show to a more collaborative effort, those same leaders from the past who encouraged the systemtic errors in our past are still involved in it’s recovery. I’m not suggesting they shouldn’t but similarly where are the new voices that will lead further. Have things improved? yes; but I think and know that there are more things that appear like the old icoc than this articles is trying to portray.”

Until ubf people rise up and demand accountability and request a mission statement that includes the word “Jesus”, ubf leaders will have to deal with the cult-leader label.

The last time I went “fishing” on campus many years ago, a student told me “I’m not joining a bible cult.” and walked away before I could even say “Hi, how are you?”

New ubf mission statement for the next 50 years does not mention Jesus

Nest41

* Notice how the Korean version of this website (click the upper righthand corner) has so much more detail. Notice the ubf-like “vision” and “ambition”. Note that the graphics in the mission, etc. sections look similar to the ubf training material (found on my website).

As stated in the article, I believe that what UBF believes about Jesus and the Bible is pretty orthodox, and thus not a cult. Unfortunately, what some UBF leaders practice definitely makes it a spiritually abusive cult. The present ongoing tragedy of UBF is our repeated and persistent refusal to humbly acknowledge the latter.

I am personally waiting for the day that UBF will officially say so publicly and apologize for all the cult-like abusive practices that have been going on for so many decades already, many of which have already been repeatedly documented on UBFriends, Wikepedia, Cult Awareness groups and other sites.

Until that happens, the “glory days” of UBF will be in the past, no matter how much some want to forget and ignore our past, and just blindly press on forward.

I attend a Baptist church now and it was very pleasant to hear such words about the church. And what about ubf? Internet is full of articles and testimonies that ubf is a cult. In my city pastors from all churches gather together from time to time but they never heard about ubf. Some Baptist pastors heard about ubf from some sisters who left our chapter in 1996, and the pastors openly say that ubf is a cult. (Though they would never say that even about orthodox and charismatic churches with which they have some sharp disagreements).

Same here. Hard to believe that could come from a Moscow shepherd. Moscow disciples aren’t so “hard-core” guys, from what I can observe.

In their mind, they suffered and sacrificed so much for “you sheep.” Of course, their blind spot is that they cannot see or cannot acknowledge that it is also for their own sense of honor or accomplishment to be a “fruitful missionary with many sheep.”

So, in their mind, “you owe them (and UBF) for life.” In my opinion, some missionaries cannot get out of this mind set. So they suffer as much pain and wounds from being betrayed by “you sheep running away after receiving everything,” just as you suffered from their authoritarian “just obey” abuse.

Again, this only proves that the Bible is true when it says that “all have sinned and fall short” (Rom 3:23). Even our missionaries fall short and desperately need Jesus just as much as “you sheep.”

As I stated in this article, I believe that they are truly well intentioned (imperfectly of course), and perhaps because of that they can’t see how all their serving and sacrifice for sheep is really a selfish filthy rag (Isa 64:6).

So, you understand that they need Jesus too. Perhaps they do too in their own hearts, except that they perhaps cannot admit it to others. They especially definitely cannot admit it openly, and definitely not on UBFriends (where they likely feel that they are being crucified as martyrs unfairly)!

http://www.watchman.org/cults/lovebomb.htm

1. Your story is a wake-up call for ubfers, many of whom probably think “We never do things like that” or “That stuff only happened in the ’70s with Slee.” But you (and I) are living examples of the dual nature of ubf missionaries in the current time. Be loyal to ubf missionaries and the ubf heritage, and you’ll get the “kimchee” side of the directors. Post on ubfriends or ask some questions about something that bothers your conscience, and you’ll get the “dear Leader” side.

2. Your story demonstrates the level of commitment ubf missionaries ask. Some third party pastors in America made some brief contact with ubf around 2005 to 2007. They claimed that ubf is just a “high demand” group that is focused on a holy life of discipline. But those pastors failed to see the dark, “hotel California” side of ubf. They didn’t realize ubf missionaries expect you to “marry” ubf. My wife and I feel that we didn’t just marry each other, we married ubf. This explain why we former members have such a difficult time moving on or even to leave, because it is like a divorce. In reality, we had to divorce ourselves from ubf in order to save our marriage and family life.

Sure, there are examples where UBF people have also served not-so-young not-so-promising people who were not in the target group of elite students. But this happens often out of desperation, because it’s better for a missionaries or shepherd to have at least one sheep instead of having nobody. And as you know, Samuel Lee then told these missionaries or shepherds to send their sheep away, because they were “uncle sheep” or “other sheep” (too old or wrong race, i.e. not Korean or Caucasian). The wife of my chapter director also sent several people away who did not fit in the target scheme, and encouraged others to do so. I also remember a story told by Samuel Lee in the newsletter, how UBF once at Christmas cooked a meal for lepers in Korea, and how they forced these people to attend because they were not used to such love. The crucial point here is that this was a one-time-event. After Christimas was over, nobody in UBF continued to care for the fate of these people. They were just used as trainings object by Lee to teach people his “serving spirit”, and to make an example out of them to show how good UBF is, but when the meal was over, they were left alone. Nobody continued to invite them to meals or make Bible study with them, because they did not promise any return of investment.

To give him the benefit of the doubt, he may be a true Christian who loves Jesus. But perhaps he bought the “UBF lie” that once you become committed to UBF, you can NEVER EVER LEAVE (without getting slammed and condemned)!

The greatest tragedy of this lie is that it denies the gospel of Christ that gives freedom. It also promotes a slavery to UBF (to build up our own earthly UBF kingdom), though the intention may be to promote faithfulness and loyalty. It fails to exercise and display love and grace, but communicates the sickness of control and manipulation that is so common of any “shepherding” movement.

Really sorry about this. Do love and forgive him for this, which you may have already done so.

btw, Vitaly, are you on facebook?

As I’ve expressed often, I believe that our UBF missionaries do love Jesus. But their Christian love, like ours, is clearly imperfect, and usually becomes increasingly more obvious and unpalatable with time.

(What flaws me daily with awe and trembling is that though my wife knows virtually all of my sins and shortcomings, yet she still loves me. This compels me more than ever to want to change and improve for Jesus and for her.)

I believe that many of our missionaries today are tired; they are experiencing their own sins and limitations after many decades. They either face up and own up to it and be liberated with new life from above—or they can stubbornly cling to their past and become increasingly obsolete and irrelevant.

“That is the power and attractiveness of Christian hospitality plus the strong spirit of communalism which is quite prevalent in Asian and middle eastern countries.”

There is a power of Christian hospitality and there is a power of Asian communalism. The two seem similar, almost indistinguishable at first. But what is the difference?

> Christian hospitality is rooted in freedom and justice, and yields people who becomes slaves to righteousness under the Lordship of Jesus and personal direction of the Holy Spirit.

> Asian communlism is rooted in loyalty and obedience, and yields people who become slaves to the community under the authority of a leader and personal direction from a human director and/or some sort of community spirit.

If you read the 50th Anniversary book lectures,you will see this Asian communalism described very well.

These things are so clear to me now, but for many years I could not make this distinction. This distinction highlights the reasons why I think we should be preaching the gospel to ubf missionaries and shepherds.

I hope you do not mind that I paragraphed your comments for easier reading.

To be fair, I think, as many have said, that when one is approached by a missionary, no one suspects anything, because I believe that many of our missionaries are truly genuinely hospitable and warmly embracing and welcoming people who want to invite you into their own family, as well as the family of UBF.

That is the power and attractiveness of Christian hospitality plus the strong spirit of communalism which is quite prevalent in Asian and middle eastern countries.

My answer: Not a chance. никогда. nunca. ніколи. jamais.

I know how they do “fishing” in Korea. For example if you are a student and you stop a younger (even 1 day younger) student in campus, the younger one MUST stop and listen to you until you allow him to go. I haven’t heard about ubf fishing when a younger one would fish an elder one. When ubf people go out as missionaries they are not students and they are going to “serve” students who are younger. And the students will always be younger. But such things wouldn’t work long outside Korea.

In Russia former ubfers say that usually when people are over 30-35 they leave ubf. When people become older in non-korean atmosphere they are not going to “just obey”. In Korea they would. Sometimes I think that Korean ubf missionaries left Korea because they wanted to leave Korean culture for a better one. Of course, “to serve perishing American and European students” is an official motto, but what is the reality? Why are more than 85% of ubf missionaries eager to “serve students” in the countries that are the best the most developed western countries and the most Christian countries in the world? And why students? Why not just serve “perishing unspiritual selfish Americans”, all of them? Maybe because adult Americans wouldn’t listen to a Korean teacher who wants to control their life?

Joe, once you shared that now the usual ubf methods don’t work in your life. Why? Is it not because you became older and not so blindly obedient? I’d like to ask, If you would never meet ubf before and if ubf would be an organization using its usual methods but serving all (not only students) “perishing Americans”; would ubf successfully fish you now? What do you think? Thanks.

I’m preparing a ubfriends article for your review Ben that describes my ideas about “redeemed UBF”.

My main point is that UBF (and all churches for that matter) need something more than reformation. If a church is not redeemed continually, it dies and falls apart. Reformation is good and needed at times, but is not the solution. The gospel message is rooted in redemption. And reformation without redemption is hopeless and at times even dangerous.

I was edified significantly the times I’ve worshiped, shared and visited with Westloop UBF, not because you’ve reformed anything ( perhaps you have), but because I saw evidence of redemption. I’ll share more in my article soon.

To make things clear: I do not think UBF should be destroyed. I do not think UBF can be reformed.

I do believe and trust that UBF can be redeemed. What would a redeemed UBF look like? I don’t know, but one example of redeemed UBF is Westloop UBF. I have not visited Penn State UBF but I would suspect is too is redeemed. Redeemed UBF is what I seek. Someone recently asked me if I would accept funds from UBF to attend a leadership seminar. I said no, but I would gladly *give* UBF all my money if they would just replace their authority structure with the grace of God.

I hope that many more after me may not have such a rough time. And by the way, we all owe a BIG apology and thank you to Chris (who is commenting here), his wife, James and Rebekah Kim, Vitaly and his wife, David B. and his wife, and many many more such as Ben and Christy, Joe and Sharon, all who paved the way before us with far greater struggles.

Here is the process I went through in 2011:

1. I asked some questions and raised some issues (via a conference report) after observing some problems for several years and hearing the stories of coworkers in UBF who confided in me (April 2011)

2. I received a rather harsh verbal rebuke immediately and told it was “none of my business” since I was wanting to know about my friends in a different chapter.

3. I asked more questions via email and phone (and to be fair I sometimes got extremely angry myself)

4. I received very harsh emails (at this point it became clear I would not be welcome in UBF unless I stopped asking questions about past and current events that troubled me)

5. After numerous attempts at dialogue (which ended in “shut up and go away” commands), I could no longer find any role in UBF.

6. The 50th anniversary material was published (June 2011)

7. I could not accept the new direction in the 50th Anniversary material, and told others about it.

8. I decided to make it clear that I left UBF and resigned permanently. I had hours of in-person meetings (even with Sarah Barry) and phone calls and emails. So I sent email to over 200 UBF leaders saying I resigned (August 2011).

So that is the 4 month “process”.

After this process, Chicago leadership tried to convince me to stay and find some role. I said no.

Other leaders in UBF told me to just be a rogue chapter, and do my own thing. I said no.

Some secret reformers in UBF tried to convince me to stay and help them secretly reform UBF. I said no.

Our hope is only in redemption, not reform or destruction. Our family found a good grace-centered Bible-believing church locally in July 2011. We’ve not stopped going and I’m beginning to serve there.

I would hope our readers would take note of one fact: Many of us former members find much strength and consolation in people like Frederick Douglass, William Wilberforce and William Wallace. Their struggles have so many parallels with our struggles with UBF directors and UBF ideology. That should give you some direction as to what actions to take while you are a member of UBF.

In addition to quotes like the one below, many movies have been helpful to many of us, movies that have striking parallels to our situation. Maybe if more ubf members watched these movies and tried to see things from another point of view, you could start to understand the plight of an ex-member of UBF. Our situation is not “cute” or “funny” but rather serious, fraught with psychological, spiritual, emotional and relational difficulties. Most of us, especially me, are just getting to know our spouses for the first time in decades.

Here is the Douglass quote:

“If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and yet depreciate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground. They want rain without thunder and lightning. They want the ocean without the awful roar of its many waters.

This struggle may be a moral one; or it may be a physical one; or it may be both moral and physical; but it must be a struggle.

Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will. Find out just what a people will submit to, and you have found out the exact amount of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them; and these will continue till they are resisted with either words or blows, or with both.

The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress. Men may not get all they pay for in this world; but they must pay for all they get. If we ever get free from all the oppressions and wrongs heaped upon us, we must pay for their removal. We must do this by labor, by suffering, by sacrifice, and, if needs be, by our lives, and the lives of others.”

(source: West India Emancipation on 8/4/1857)

Thoughts on UBF reform

In regard to Mr. Armstrong, I feel that I must share that he indeed knows that the problems ubf faces are far deeper than culture clashes. In fact I was in a meeting with him discussing these very same things that you mention Chris. He had a sort of “eureka” moment where he realized that one big problem with ubf is the Moses style leadership, which is far beyond mere culture clashes, which happen everywhere and can be overcome. Moses passing the baton to Joshua however… that’s an entirely different set of problems to deal with.

This gets into the pathos level of humanity. We humans somehow have the ability to fake a lot of things, but I just don’t see how love can be faked.

I do agree with what you are saying! Love is the gospel message (Luke 10:27) I also believe that true love manifests itself through humility. God’s love manifested through Christ humility according to (Philippians 2:5-8) and (1 John 3:16). Rick Warren quoted, “Pride builds walls between people, humility builds bridges.” All the failed attempts to reform UBF point to lack of love manifested in humility. D.L. Moody said, “A man can counterfeit love, he can counterfeit faith, he can counterfeit hope and all the other graces, but it is very difficult to counterfeit humility.” People can pretend to love! How does love prove itself as genuine love–humility! I’m not talking about blind submission to someone or some ideology. I’m talking about true love for each other as brothers and sisters in Christ will prove itself authentic by a way of humility. What do you think?

Actually, I haven’t been attending staff meetings because we have four kids, but Gideon has gone to some of them. So, I’m not sure what goes on there, and anyway I don’t think I’d have a big influence. But people like Joe and Ben would, or I would think they would. It’s a matter of communicating with others, and this website is a good start. I believe the purpose of this website is to promote peace and understanding, but we also need action.

In Chicago, some of the CBF leaders pushed for a change in how CBF was handled. Some of those changes that I personally was interested in finally happened. So my point is, it’s a matter of continuous trying and praying, and we need to involve the right people. I would love to see change and not just talk about it. We need to continue to talk about it, pray about it, and take action, but in a civilized manner as we are the body of Christ. God will answer because this is ultimately his church; it’s just a matter of time.

John Armstrong said some great things about UBF, but he said there were two big issues that hinders UBF from being effective in America. Those were 1) UBF didn’t interact with other churches. 2) UBF had a lot of Korean traditions. Of course, I know there are many other issues, many of which have been discussed in this website, but I think the many of them stem from Korean traditions. Now it’s my understanding that Dr. Abraham T. Kim is working on the first issue, and I know that the second issue is being talked about.

I believe our main weapon in fighting this issue is simply we need to go back to the Bible, particularly, the Ten Commandments. Putting a shepherd over someone and making them as “god” over a sheep is breaking the first commandment: “Thou shall have no other gods before me.” It’s okay to disciple them, but instructing them in the details of their life as God’s direction is taking the place of God. Our job is to point the sheep to God and teach them to listen to the Holy Spirit. We can give them counsel pointing them to God’s word. The second commandment is “Thou shall not make for yourself carved image…” This is idol worship. Idols back then were carved, but I like what Tullian Tchividjian said, we can make anything into an idol, even our own children. Whatever takes precedence over depending upon God and his word is idol worship. Paul talked about this in some of his letters. He was making a distinction between serving God versus traditions and what is the true Gospel versus false teaching. And this is what we need to bring to the table.

In addition, we need use an example of an exemplary missionary who got it right when it came to converting natives in another country and request proper missionary training. Before Hudson Taylor went to China, other missionaries who came taught the Chinese the Bible along with mandating them to follow their culture. It didn’t work. Now Korean missionaries have been able to raise up some disciples, but with a lot of chaos and hurt amongst everyone. Korean traditions are fine, but shouldn’t be imposed on Americans as Christian living. There ought to be some type of missionary training course taught to our missionaries so they know what to and what not to do. I don’t know where Korean missionaries are trained, but if they get trained at the headquarters, then a lot of prevention can begin.

I suppose UBF leaders will point to numerous cases where national leaders are indeed “leading”. But those leaders probably won’t point out the figurehead nature or just-for-statistics reasons for appointing such leaders.

Jesus said “not so with you”, yet UBF continues to say “it is so with us.”

“Bottom line I believe is this: Humility.”

>>> I would tend to agree on the importance of humility. But I do not see humility as the bottom line. In Eastern thought religions, yes humility is indeed the bottom line. However, for us Christians, love is the bottom line. Faith, hope and love remain, but love is the greatest. To be a friend to sinners and enemies and those who disagree or are different from us is far more valuable and Christ-like than humbly submitting to someone or some ideology. When you think humility is the bottom line, you are on your way to developing the han syndrome. That is not the gospel message Jesus brought.